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Honest discussion about NIL. Would love to hear thoughts.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 9:17 am
Posted on 4/24/24 at 9:17 am
So, I really hadn't thought about it that much till I saw where Jerry Jones was promising to pay double for kids that were migrating to Arkansas from Kentucky, and the 16 year old kid that is demanding $2M a year, but I got to thinking about how NIL is impacting college sports, or what used to be college sports, now just a professional league with college names on the front. Let's discuss it a bit and help me if I'm wrong, because I really haven't researched it to be sure I understand how it all works.
A school can have an "NIL collective", whether for one sport or all sports I guess. And from that collective, donations are raised from a fan giving $1 to billionaires giving millions.
College kids can also work their own deals with other 3rd parties, such as businesses looking for advertising.
Maybe there are other alternatives as well.
So, let's say a school has $10M in NIL collective money to spend. I would guess the majority of that goes to football and men's basketball and players all negotiate for the most they can get from the school plus any side deals with the concept of the kids with the most name recognition (QB's, and basketball players) getting the most money.
As best I can tell, the NCAA created no rules around this, and just allowed collegiate sports to become minor league professional sports. In this scenario, the schools who raise and spend the most will get the majority of the talent every time. Right or wrong, that seems to me to be how it will work.
Wouldn't it have been better to have there been a cap that applies to all schools and all sports of a certain amount, and everyone gets the same? That would make the incentive to chase the most money go away, and kids could go to the schools they want and not just choose based upon pay.
Also, should schools now push back a bit? Schools pay you as an employee, you now pay for your own tuition, room, board, meals, insurance, etc.
Also should they have performance clauses in their contracts. Should a school be able to remove a player who is not performing up to expectations in the middle of a season? Seems right now, you can pay a kid millions and get little to nothing in return.
I'm not completely against NIL, but I don't like how it's working now. It seems completely one sided, and I wonder when booster fatigue will set in, and maybe that needs to happen soooner rather than later.
A school can have an "NIL collective", whether for one sport or all sports I guess. And from that collective, donations are raised from a fan giving $1 to billionaires giving millions.
College kids can also work their own deals with other 3rd parties, such as businesses looking for advertising.
Maybe there are other alternatives as well.
So, let's say a school has $10M in NIL collective money to spend. I would guess the majority of that goes to football and men's basketball and players all negotiate for the most they can get from the school plus any side deals with the concept of the kids with the most name recognition (QB's, and basketball players) getting the most money.
As best I can tell, the NCAA created no rules around this, and just allowed collegiate sports to become minor league professional sports. In this scenario, the schools who raise and spend the most will get the majority of the talent every time. Right or wrong, that seems to me to be how it will work.
Wouldn't it have been better to have there been a cap that applies to all schools and all sports of a certain amount, and everyone gets the same? That would make the incentive to chase the most money go away, and kids could go to the schools they want and not just choose based upon pay.
Also, should schools now push back a bit? Schools pay you as an employee, you now pay for your own tuition, room, board, meals, insurance, etc.
Also should they have performance clauses in their contracts. Should a school be able to remove a player who is not performing up to expectations in the middle of a season? Seems right now, you can pay a kid millions and get little to nothing in return.
I'm not completely against NIL, but I don't like how it's working now. It seems completely one sided, and I wonder when booster fatigue will set in, and maybe that needs to happen soooner rather than later.
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Posted on 4/24/24 at 9:19 am to kywildcatfanone
There is no pushback. Each school can pretty much do what is right in their own eyes. This model will soon implode. The sooner the better.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 9:23 am to kywildcatfanone
quote:
And from that collective, donations are raised from a fan giving $1 to billionaires giving millions.
I just want to comment on this part.
Yes, a billionaire wants to know he’s got the backing from a collective of fans. He wants the millionaire to donate 1000 per month; the multi-thousand Aires to donate 100 per month and the average fan to produce 20 per month. I am sure there is a health equation that makes a sturdy donor-base. That’s what he’s looking for.
The fans need to get involved or the billionaire is going to focus his money on getting to multi multi billionaire status with his business and his Alma mater will have to wait until he knows he’s investing into a team that will reward him with wins.
This post was edited on 4/24/24 at 9:31 am
Posted on 4/24/24 at 9:23 am to kywildcatfanone
quote:
NCAA created no rules around this
You clearly do not understand the NCAA or what has happened. The NCAA clearly had rules in place. A California judge basically said you can't tell an adult he/she can't make money while collecting Billions of dollars. If you want to place blame, blame the colleges AD/presidents and coaches who raked in money for decades while not planning for the future.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 9:52 am to AUCE05
quote:People don't like to hear it but this is the truth of the thing. The NCAA chose to die on the amateur hill without having a backup plan in place to retain order in a worst case scenario.
The NCAA clearly had rules in place... you can't tell an adult he/she can't make money while collecting Billions of dollars. If you want to place blame, blame the colleges AD/presidents and coaches who raked in money for decades while not planning for the future.
The conferences and/or NCAA could put more guardrails in place, but they will need to recognize that the students are employees and there will be collective bargaining and revenue sharing - which would likely come out somewhere around 50% based on precedent with other professional leagues which opens another can of worms.
In some ways better for the schools to continue retaining all of the revenue and let the payment to players come from NIL vs. revenue sharing.
This post was edited on 4/24/24 at 9:53 am
Posted on 4/24/24 at 10:13 am to kywildcatfanone
quote:
I'm not completely against NIL, but I don't like how it's working now. It seems completely one sided, and I wonder when booster fatigue will set in, and maybe that needs to happen sooner rather than later.
The only route to reintroduce rules are the few SEC/B1G programs who can afford to breaking away, classifying players as employees & collectively bargaining with unions. I don’t like it, but haven’t seen any other model that will stand up in court. It’s that, or go be a fan of a smaller school which is still somewhat amateur sports.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 10:19 am to kywildcatfanone
The problem is, so long as kids can freely choose where they go, there's always going to be boosters to give money/incentives.
If you have a cap, the kid will then get whatever's alloted based on the cap, but then will also get the sacks full of cash under the table. With no caps, there's no incentive for dark money.
You can't have a cap unless you have a method in which kids are assigned schools. Otherwise, it's unfair to restrict school A from putting forward their best offer, when school B can match and also has a bagman or cheap acreage in rural Georgia.
If players can't choose but are assigned through a draft or algorithm method, then caps make sense because there's no incentive to give anyone extra bc it's not going to influence where they go.
Why should the schools push back? This is not costing them anything. It's all being propped up by fans. Performance clauses is one of the few rules the NCAA has in place. Should those rules go away? Maybe. It would prevent players for latching on the sitting on the bench. Perhaps a bonus model is more appropriate.
The onus is on the conferences to police this as the NCAA is worthless at this point.
If you have a cap, the kid will then get whatever's alloted based on the cap, but then will also get the sacks full of cash under the table. With no caps, there's no incentive for dark money.
You can't have a cap unless you have a method in which kids are assigned schools. Otherwise, it's unfair to restrict school A from putting forward their best offer, when school B can match and also has a bagman or cheap acreage in rural Georgia.
If players can't choose but are assigned through a draft or algorithm method, then caps make sense because there's no incentive to give anyone extra bc it's not going to influence where they go.
Why should the schools push back? This is not costing them anything. It's all being propped up by fans. Performance clauses is one of the few rules the NCAA has in place. Should those rules go away? Maybe. It would prevent players for latching on the sitting on the bench. Perhaps a bonus model is more appropriate.
The onus is on the conferences to police this as the NCAA is worthless at this point.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 10:21 am to kywildcatfanone
NIL should only come from any legit business opportunity that uses their name, like, and image.
No pay for play from boosters or the university period. Your money either comes from a legit, pre-verified and vetted service you are providing or not at all. And if I had it my way, you only get it your junior or senior season. Should never be an incentive to sign with any program.
The transfer portal should only be open after your sophomore year and later. And then for only verifiable hardship cases or legitimate cases where it can be reasonably proved you'll get more playing time.
No pay for play from boosters or the university period. Your money either comes from a legit, pre-verified and vetted service you are providing or not at all. And if I had it my way, you only get it your junior or senior season. Should never be an incentive to sign with any program.
The transfer portal should only be open after your sophomore year and later. And then for only verifiable hardship cases or legitimate cases where it can be reasonably proved you'll get more playing time.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 10:24 am to ALhunter
The schools just hate revenue sharing. It costs them money. It’s the only way out though. Share revenue, collectively bargain, sign contracts. Works in the NFL.
Oh. It was never NIL. It’s been pay for play the whole time.
My you rot in h3ll Ed O’bannon.
Oh. It was never NIL. It’s been pay for play the whole time.
My you rot in h3ll Ed O’bannon.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 10:33 am to theballguy
quote:This would have been the ideal set up and had the school presidents & AD's gotten off their arse and pushed this plan through NCAA legislation student-athletes would've been satisfied, it would've never been necessary for a ruling by the Supreme Court.
NIL should only come from any legit business opportunity that uses their name, like, and image.
No pay for play from boosters or the university period. Your money either comes from a legit, pre-verified and vetted service you are providing or not at all. And if I had it my way, you only get it your junior or senior season. Should never be an incentive to sign with any program.
The transfer portal should only be open after your sophomore year and later. And then for only verifiable hardship cases or legitimate cases where it can be reasonably proved you'll get more playing time.
As things stand today, there's no going back and the NCAA has no leg to stand on.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 10:36 am to RT1941
quote:As a whole, I think they still were. But, anytime lawyers see huge piles of cash and unending billable hours, the crusade for “justice” begins.
student-athletes would've been satisfied,
Posted on 4/24/24 at 10:36 am to AUCE05
quote:
If you want to place blame, blame the colleges AD/presidents and coaches who raked in money for decades while not planning for the future.
you are aware that only like 20-30 school in the entire country even turn a profit on athletics?
the rest lose money.
and that's without paying athletes.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 10:39 am to theballguy
quote:
NIL should only come from any legit business opportunity that uses their name, like, and image.
This was the way it was presented to the public.
Nobody was told that there would be "collectives"...
Nobody was told that guys basketball transfers would be lending their "name, image and likeness" to the owner of the Dallas Cowboys.
It was presented like this was going to be players and local businesses finding each other and having the player do a photo op eating the proprietor's chicken wings. Or the player doing t shirts.
Basically we got legalized and organized boosters bribing these guys.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 10:48 am to kywildcatfanone
Everything happening was obviously going to happen when they started this NIL.
This is what you get when you think government is the answer to societies problems. All they do is cause problems. The entire system is voluntary, the federal government has no business being involved.
This is what you get when you think government is the answer to societies problems. All they do is cause problems. The entire system is voluntary, the federal government has no business being involved.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 10:53 am to Gunga Din
quote:
Nobody was told that there would be "collectives"...
bullshite, I warned of collectives for years before the NIL. I didn't call them "collectives" but I described the entire process 100% and said what would happen.
And it's not like I'm someone who can see into the future, it was just that fricking obvious.
quote:
Nobody was told that guys basketball transfers would be lending their "name, image and likeness" to the owner of the Dallas Cowboys.
Once again, the frick they weren't. Warned over and over, and the only thing people would say in response was "You're just scared of people getting paid and you'll lose your advantage" rather than acknowledging or addressing the obvious.
quote:
It was presented like this was going to be players and local businesses finding each other and having the player do a photo op eating the proprietor's chicken wings. Or the player doing t shirts.
Basically we got legalized and organized boosters bribing these guys.
Like I said, 100% predictable and it doesn't take a fortune teller to know it.
Don't tell me people weren't warned. Everyone just choose to ignore the warnings and dismissed those who tried to warn for whatever reasons.
And I wish this was only true for college sports. But the reality is, everything that happens in the world people were warned about and they choose to ignore the warnings and still do.
The consequences of a society that only learns what to think, not how to think.
This post was edited on 4/24/24 at 10:54 am
Posted on 4/24/24 at 10:54 am to kywildcatfanone
Players own their own NIL rights (as they should).
Players should not be granted immediate eligibility upon transfer unless they have a diploma in hand.
No exceptions. When you have Hardship waivers, every transfer is a Hardship. Just ask their lawyer.
That solves the real problem (free agency).
Players should not be granted immediate eligibility upon transfer unless they have a diploma in hand.
No exceptions. When you have Hardship waivers, every transfer is a Hardship. Just ask their lawyer.
That solves the real problem (free agency).
Posted on 4/24/24 at 10:55 am to Gunga Din
quote:The SCOTUS didn't tell the public anything, they simply made a ruling. Contrary to popular belief, the public are pretty smart folks, even brilliant in many aspects and very industrious. The public saw the potential for this thing to blow like a volcano.
This was the way it was presented to the public.
Nobody was told that there would be "collectives"...
Nobody was told that guys basketball transfers would be lending their "name, image and likeness" to the owner of the Dallas Cowboys.
It was presented like this was going to be players and local businesses finding each other and having the player do a photo op eating the proprietor's chicken wings. Or the player doing t shirts.
Basically we got legalized and organized boosters bribing these guys.
The NCAA on the other hand had every opportunity to reign things in by placing stern restrictions on the transfer portal, they failed to do so. Now we have unregulated pay-for-play through NIL collectives AND an unrestricted transfer portal.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 10:56 am to BevoBucks
quote:Collective bargaining will not solve the NIL problem. No sport that has collective bargaining limits what athletes can earn in sponsorships and such because it would be an anti-trust violation. Think about it. Imagine the NBA telling LeBron you can only earn $X in sponsorships.
The only route to reintroduce rules are the few SEC/B1G programs who can afford to breaking away, classifying players as employees & collectively bargaining with unions. I don’t like it, but haven’t seen any other model that will stand up in court. It’s that, or go be a fan of a smaller school which is still somewhat amateur sports.
The only way to get around this problem is for Congress to pass an anti-trust exemption of some sort for college athletics. That seems very unlikely.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 11:07 am to 3down10
quote:
Nobody was told that there would be "collectives"...
quote:
bullshite, I warned of collectives for years before the NIL. I didn't call them "collectives" but I described the entire process 100% and said what would happen.
And it's not like I'm someone who can see into the future, it was just that fricking obvious.
AMEN! Many (especially YOU) saw this shitshow coming a mile away. Hell, a ton of head coaches saw this thing snowballing out of control and tried to warn folks. But because people hate Alabama and Nick Saban so much, they turned a blind eye claiming "Saban will never be able to recruit top talent now, NIL & transfer portal finally leveled the playing field, so suck it Bama fans."
People got what they wanted; they got the level playing field they wanted. Players are getting what they wanted. They are paid handsomely to put on that jersey for at least 1 season for your team.
Posted on 4/24/24 at 11:09 am to twk
quote:Legally, you’re right. Kids can still sign NIL deals & there will always be a few deep pocket boosters willing to do their own thing. But, practically, very few kids are brands on their own. So, hiring 1099’s will no longer be outsourced to the collectives. Many of those resources would flow again through university athletic departments.
Collective bargaining will not solve the NIL problem. No sport that has collective bargaining limits what athletes can earn in sponsorships and such because it would be an anti-trust violation. Think about it. Imagine the NBA telling LeBron you can only earn $X in sponsorships.
This post was edited on 4/24/24 at 11:25 am
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