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re: Best Running Back in SEC History?
Posted on 6/1/22 at 1:50 pm to qman91
Posted on 6/1/22 at 1:50 pm to qman91
quote:
And all of those are OPINION based sir what are you guys not getting listen you are a homer
Yes. They are all opinions, just as any polls are. But you keep missing the obvious point. When so many opinions line up you should take notice. Those opinions are NOT expressed by "homer" Georgia fans. They are a diverse collection of sportswriters and people that professionally follow the sport. And they overwhelmingly pick Herschel Walker. You should ask yourself what professionals are seeing that you are not.
quote:Really? Show them to me. And I have said over and over again that I (personally) would be hard pressed to pick one of those over the other.
just as many articles as you can pull up about Herschel I can pull for Bo (whom I believe is the best ever).
quote:No you didn't. You gave me an opinion piece talking about his NFL career...which has nothing to do with the SEC.
However you wanted a Derrick Henry piece so I presented you one.
quote:I do have to admit that I stopped when the article started off talking about his pro career. I will go back and read the entire thing.
As you read, a majority of the article highlighted his college career.
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Posted on 6/1/22 at 2:04 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Because height, weight, and strength measurables are readily available on the internet in 2022.
And don't they all favor Herschel Walker?
ETA I see where Henry was a little bigger. Walker was faster. Did not see strength listed anywhere.
quote:They are because of coaching, training, nutritional staffs, etc. I have already said this. And, if Herschel and Bo played today, they would have those benefits in addition to their natural abilities.
Which wouldn't be the case anymore as defensive players, by and large, are now far more athletic and versatile than they were in the early and mid-80s.
quote:That's fine. I have many times I would have a difficult time arguing against Bo Jackson. Both of those were phenomenal, otherworldly athletes.
See above. Also...Herschel Walker's career yards per carry average was 5.3 while Bo Jackson's was 6.6. I'd take Jackson over Walker in today's game.
This post was edited on 6/1/22 at 2:17 pm
Posted on 6/1/22 at 2:11 pm to qman91
FWIW, I went and reread that article. He never said Henry was the best SEC RB of all time.
Don't misunderstand me. Derrick Henry is a great talent. Nobody is saying anything different. (Or they shouldn't)
I am just voicing my opinion that Herschel Walker and Bo Jackson should be considered 1A and 1B and people can choose which they prefer.
This might be a troll thread...but even troll threads can spark interesting conversation. But, this one has pretty much played itself out.
Don't misunderstand me. Derrick Henry is a great talent. Nobody is saying anything different. (Or they shouldn't)
I am just voicing my opinion that Herschel Walker and Bo Jackson should be considered 1A and 1B and people can choose which they prefer.
This might be a troll thread...but even troll threads can spark interesting conversation. But, this one has pretty much played itself out.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 2:45 pm to meansonny
quote:
I think you are confusing buck belue and jake coker as wildcat QBs. Lol
The numbers favor the defense. Always until you have Hurts at QB.
You seem to ignore spacing.
You seem to ignore run blitzing or firing.
For you, a safety 7 yards off the line is the same as a safety 16 yards off the line of scrimmage.
For you, a safety crashing down is the same as a safety reading keys.
If a defender wants a gap, it is extremely difficult for an expert blocking lineman to keep him out. That is why changing plays at the line is so important.
The defense has the edge when they know what to defend. Passing half of the time changes so much in the defensive approach, your inability to recognize this is stunning.
The wildcat is a formation, not a position. In that formation, the QB is removed from the game, and the RB takes the snap directly. This gives the offense 1 extra blocker, which is important because as I've been saying, the running game is a numbers game.
The formation itself has nothing to do with Walker or Henry, since neither of them ran the formation. I was merely pointing out the concept to demonstrate that the running game is about numbers. How many blockers you have to take care of the defenders. The wildcat is an advantage because of the extra blocker.
Spacing and such is dictated by the offense. Georgia didn't space them out because that is not how their offense worked. In the end, it really doesn't matter because the player is either blocked, having to defend a route, or whatever. In each case the player is accounted for, and there is no real difference in the end.
You for some reason like to sit here and pretend that Georgia just sucked in the passing game, without a clue to the fact that they were built that way for a reason.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 2:51 pm to meansonny
quote:
Running is easier with run blocking wide receivers versus an offense designed to pass the ball half of the time to keep defenses honest.
In the end, they are exactly the same if the team is executing.
If the WR blocks the CB, then he's taken care of in that play. If a WR runs a route and takes the CB out of the play with space, then he's taken care of in that play.
Either way, as far as the running game goes, the numbers are the same. There are 11 players on each side.
These advantages in the run game you mention only exist in small amounts. Yeah if a team passes 90% of the time, it's going to help out the running game in terms of yards per carry. It's not going to help the overall numbers, and it doesn't come into play in this discussion due to the amount of carries the RBs have.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 3:22 pm to 3down10
quote:
These advantages in the run game you mention only exist in small amounts.
Perhaps in bigger amounts than you acknowledge
Posted on 6/1/22 at 3:23 pm to 3down10
quote:
quote:
Running is easier with run blocking wide receivers versus an offense designed to pass the ball half of the time to keep defenses honest.
In the end, they are exactly the same if the team is executing.
Lol
Way to double down on bad takes.
You seem to ignore safety depth (cb depth too).
You seem to ignore the safety's first step.
You seem to ignore the lateral spacing across the line of scrimmage (inside the box or spread out with receivers towards the numbers).
To imply that a balanced (run/pass) offense has no impact on the ability to run the football is the worst take on a bevy of bad takes.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 3:35 pm to GAT BoilerPickle Doc
Cecile The Diesel Collin’s was bad arse dude to watch run, just hand an issue with keeping his hands of women.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 3:36 pm to 3down10
quote:
The wildcat is a formation, not a position. In that formation, the QB is removed from the game, and the RB takes the snap directly. This gives the offense 1 extra blocker, which is important because as I've been saying, the running game is a numbers game.
The formation itself has nothing to do with Walker or Henry, since neither of them ran the formation. I was merely pointing out the concept to demonstrate that the running game is about numbers. How many blockers you have to take care of the defenders. The wildcat is an advantage because of the extra blocker.
You are failing in semantics on this take.
It isnt the wildcat that creates the extra blocker.
It is the player receiving the snap as a ballcarrier that creates the extra blocker. That player can be a wildcat player (sony michel), wildcat qb (cam newton), or mobile qb (jalen hurts or jordan jefferson).
quote:
In the end, it really doesn't matter because the player is either blocked, having to defend a route, or whatever. In each case the player is accounted for, and there is no real difference in the end.
Blocking in a phone booth, blocking 4 yards off the line of scrimmage, and blocking 16 yards off the line of scrimmage all matter for the average yards per carry.
Blocking a defender who is firing down off the snap is different than blocking a defender reading run/pass keys.
It reads like your idea of blocking is from a video game. For you, there is no difference in leverage and reach.
At this point, there is nothing a knowledgeable football fan can do to help you out. You either understand that a defense plays differently for an offense that runs 3 plays 71% of the time versus an offense that mixes a lot closer to 50% pass (even if the running plays are still only 3 different types).
Posted on 6/1/22 at 3:39 pm to djsdawg
quote:
Perhaps in bigger amounts than you acknowledge
When you have the amount of carries the players we are talking about in this thread got, it's really a non factor.
The offenses are different in how they operate, but in the end it's always a numbers game. You can throw 4 WR out there, or just 1, and what's going to matter is how they execute.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 3:48 pm to meansonny
Mark Sanchez, greatest wildcat blocking QB ever.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 3:50 pm to meansonny
quote:
You are failing in semantics on this take.
It isnt the wildcat that creates the extra blocker.
It is the player receiving the snap as a ballcarrier that creates the extra blocker. That player can be a wildcat player (sony michel), wildcat qb (cam newton), or mobile qb (jalen hurts or jordan jefferson).
A RB pretty much does not throw the ball, while a duel threat QB will.
quote:
Blocking in a phone booth, blocking 4 yards off the line of scrimmage, and blocking 16 yards off the line of scrimmage all matter for the average yards per carry.
Blocking a defender who is firing down off the snap is different than blocking a defender reading run/pass keys.
If the defender is blocked, then there is no difference. It would only be different if the defender is not blocked, and even then the difference is going to be mild.
Having too many defenders up close is also why you see people run for 50 yard TDs on 4th and 1. Especially with faster backs because they won't get caught from behind. They take a wrong angle or get blocked, even though they are 100% expecting the run, and there is no safety there to help.
70% of Derrick Henry's yards in 2015 were after contact. So I'm really not sure where even if you were right, it would matter in this case.
quote:
It reads like your idea of blocking is from a video game. For you, there is no difference in leverage and reach.
To me you sound like a guy who only knows basic cliches rather than any real deep understanding of things. Unable to understand where it applies and why, and where it doesn't apply and why.
quote:
At this point, there is nothing a knowledgeable football fan can do to help you out. You either understand that a defense plays differently for an offense that runs 3 plays 71% of the time versus an offense that mixes a lot closer to 50% pass (even if the running plays are still only 3 different types).
If the defenses play differently is not the question, and apparently you'll never understand that.
Everything the defense does is in response to what the offense is doing. Teams that run the ball 71% of the time do that because they are built to do that.
Alabama ran the ball about 60% of the time in 2015, so in reality you are talking about 1 extra run play every 10 plays, 5 or 6 extra run plays over an entire game and pretending it's the only thing that matters.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 4:21 pm to GAT BoilerPickle Doc
Cecil Collins was one of the most talented running backs in history. Too bad he was retarded.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 4:25 pm to 3down10
quote:
When you have the amount of carries the players we are talking about in this thread got, it's really a non factor.
Space matters a lot more than you admit. Spreading the field makes a big difference.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 4:29 pm to djsdawg
quote:
Space matters a lot more than you admit. Spreading the field makes a big difference.
For the passing game it makes a huge difference.
If it made a big difference for the running game, Georgia would have played that way. You bunched your formations up for a reason, same as most goal line formations and 4th and 1 type formations are bunched up.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 4:34 pm to 3down10
quote:
For the passing game it makes a huge difference.
No less impact for a RB, that’s for sure.
6 in the box vs 10 in the box are VERY different. To claim otherwise is really a bad look for you.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 4:34 pm to djsdawg
quote:
No less impact for a RB, that’s for sure.
6 in the box vs 10 in the box are VERY different. To claim otherwise is really a bad look for you.
The only way a defense is putting 10 in the box is if you have all your offensive people on the line as well.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 4:37 pm to 3down10
quote:
The only way a defense is putting 10 in the box is if you have all your offensive people on the line as well.
Well, that point is over your head if this is the response.
This post was edited on 6/1/22 at 4:38 pm
Posted on 6/1/22 at 4:38 pm to 3down10
In fairness where you fist encounter contact and the physical stature of the tackler at point of contact absolutely impacts both yards after contact and yards per carry. If I run unmolested 7 yard and then encounter a safety it’s entirely different reality than if I run 2 yards and encounter a defensive end. The likelyhood of yards after contact increase dramatically depending upon the leverage and strength of the tackler. The majority of runs over 10 yards in the NFL, irrespective of the back are against formations with 4 or more defensive backs. What skews ypc are runs over 10 yards. Defensive back numbers are overwhelmingly dictated by the # of WR in a formation.
This is why YPC is not as good of an indication of impact as % of offense. And even % of O isn’t a silver bullet stat.
YPC and YAC are most enhanced by running out of pass heavy formations.
This is why YPC is not as good of an indication of impact as % of offense. And even % of O isn’t a silver bullet stat.
YPC and YAC are most enhanced by running out of pass heavy formations.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 4:41 pm to djsdawg
quote:
Well, that point is over your head if this is the response.
The fact you think the number of people in the box is more important than how many extra people they have in the box vs the offense is not my fault.
If you have 4 WR set, and you have 8 in the box, then you have a WR who isn't covered. If you have 7 in the box, then you are still playing against the run(or blitz) very aggressively, as the WR are all being covered by 1 with no help.
The only way in hell you will ever have 10 defenders in the box is if you have like 1 WR, with everyone else on the offensive side of the box, or 0 WR and the defense has 1 safety and everyone else in the box.
This post was edited on 6/1/22 at 4:42 pm
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