It results in a US dollar that has no value. It means you pay $17 for a burger so the fact that you're making a couple more dollars doesn't actually help. It means if you travel, your money is worth less than it was before we decided to give in to kids who are mad because they work hard for a little bit of money. Instead of learning a lesson from their shite job that they're supposed to learn, they learn that enough of them bitch about it, they don't need a marketable skill. They'll just all get raises for complaining. Then in 5 years they'll bitch because everything is so expensive and they won't understand why because they never needed to get an education because people that make policies gave in to their idiotic complaints. Kids are supposed to work a shite job, learn that it sucks and go do something with themselves so they can make more for their time. They never will now that they know they can get their way by throwing a massive tantrum.

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Posted by chillmonster

Atlanta, GA

Member since Dec 2018

5077 posts

Posted on 12/8/20 at 6:24 pm to SneakyWaff1es

quote:
It means you pay $17 for a burger so the fact that you're making a couple more dollars doesn't actually help.

Let's just put this to bed right now.

Minimum wage in San Francisco: 15.59
Cost of a Big Mac: 3.99
Cost of a Big Mac Meal delivered (Door Dash): 11.59

Minimum Wage in Atlanta: 7.25 (Federal Wage)
Cost of a Big Mac: 3.99
Cost of a Big Mac Meal delivered (Door Dash): 9.49

Chances that those San Fran franchises are operating at a loss for no reason: ZERO

Annual Wage increase from $9/hr to 15/hr: $14,500

That's money spent on cars, movies, food, Christmas gifts, etc. It's also money not paid in WIC and other welfare programs, which all subsidize low wage employers. It's organic stimulus directly towards those most likely to spend, which even the most basic economic education tells you drives the economy (and with that the earnings of almost every business) much more than any tax cut or government spending program.

PLUS it lowers the deficit without raising taxes while organically cutting entitlements.

It does cut some corporate profits, but that argument only works if corporations are re-investing profits instead of doing the stock-buybacks that are current SOP. Why not force that money back into the economy to promote growth instead of debt?

Conservative, liberal, or whatever increasing the minimum wage makes sense.

quote:
Kids are supposed to work a shite job, learn that it sucks and go do something with themselves so they can make more for their time.

More than half of low wage workers are over 25. 44% of all US workers are low wage. For a society it makes more sense to take the most economically beneficial option than it does to "teach people a lesson."

This post was edited on 12/8/20 at 6:27 pm

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Posted by fibonaccisquared

The mystical waters of the Hooch

Member since Dec 2011

16898 posts

Posted on 12/8/20 at 6:52 pm to SneakyWaff1es

quote:
It results in a US dollar that has no value. It means you pay $17 for a burger so the fact that you're making a couple more dollars doesn't actually help. It means if you travel, your money is worth less than it was before

It's a lot more nuanced than just "increasing the minimum wage = massive inflation.

Just so it's clear, I'm not personally for increased minimum wage as a "fix" for income inequality... at least not a one shot, rip the bandaid approach. I think there are better options to meet in the middle. One of the underlooked aspects of a flat increase to minimum wages nationally is that a lot of union job salaries are also tied to the minimum wage number (ie. Minimum Wage + X Variable component), so those would be impacted indirectly by any change to minimum wage. I think there is room for a minimum wage to exist, but perhaps offer tax incentives (carrot) for organizations that work to develop their employees and grow their career and wage into something resembling a "living wage" and/or tax penalties (stick) for organizations that essentially burn and churn minimum wage workers with no intent to have them grow into more meaningful/skilled positions (or maybe put caveats of workers over the age of 22 or 25 - the minimum wage amendments in the mid nineties had some kind of under 20 sub-minimum wage IIRC). Often people will say "but muh small businesses", but in that case, you can put the same employee size limits that you see for other legislation that is designed to ensure that small businesses aren't negatively impacted while major corporations at least have to work harder to skirt the rules.

I'm also of the mind that as a country we need to get the frick away from a "tipping culture" as a mechanism to prevent paying servers and other service workers a fair wage (in fact substantially less than minimum wage). Just charge me what I need to pay so that your employees earn a reasonable wage for their work... if I decide to tip a few bucks, then that's between me and them and whether they did a *good* job, rather than just showed up and didn't shite on my plate.

quote:
Kids are supposed to work a shite job, learn that it sucks and go do something with themselves so they can make more for their time. They never will now that they know they can get their way by throwing a massive tantrum.

Out of curiosity, how old are you and/or when did you graduate from UGA. When I graduated in '05, in-state tuition (for people who weren't on HOPE) was about 2200/semester IIRC. In 2020 it's up to nearly 5000/semester. Over a 120% increase over that 15 year time span. Meanwhile, minimal starting salary gains have been made, cost of living has increased over that time, etc...

There is also a bit of a misconception that minimum wage earners are heavily made up of teenagers/kids.

You can see that more than 50% of all earners at or below minimum wage are 25 years or older, and they make up roughly 62% of all those who earn below minimum wage. That's not to say that they aren't responsible for their own choices, but someone has to fill those jobs too...

Ultimately, I think there is room to move the minimum wage up, eventually even up to $15/hour potentially... but the key is not sitting on our asses for 13 years and letting things get out of control... rather making incremental lifts to the minimum to keep up with rising costs of living so that businesses and employers can adjust to those changes in the same way they do other market changes.

... I gotta go take care of a crying baby, so I'll wrap up here... might pick back up later if there is any interest in real discussion from anyone.