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re: If tre mason kneels on the 5, does auburn win?
Posted on 1/7/14 at 10:22 am to Bham4Tide
Posted on 1/7/14 at 10:22 am to Bham4Tide
quote:
I hate this thread. So full of dumb.
No what's dumb is the archaic belief that "You always take the points when you are losing".
The game has changed the good coaches adapt (Belichik, Gus, etc.) You should go for it on 4th and less than 5 most of the time. You should call time outs on defense when another team is about to score to preserve enough time for your offense. There are certain times where running the clock is much more important than scoring points.
Here's a list of ideas you probably believe in that are all statistically wrong.
You punt on 4th down
Don't give up the deep pass (prevent)
You run the ball with a lead to control the clock
You kick FGs when you are up 3 (in the 4th quarter) and it's 4th down and you're inside 45 yards.
This post was edited on 1/7/14 at 10:28 am
Posted on 1/7/14 at 10:27 am to JB Bama
Some people can't think outside of the box.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 10:27 am to BigEdLSU
Hindsight is 50/50. You should have mortgaged your house and bought Apple stock a long time ago.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 10:29 am to Schwaaz
It's not hindsight. This happens all the time in the NFL and college, and I always think.. damn should of taken a knee there.
In 20 years you'll watch these highlights and be like.. look at that idiot score with 1:20 to go to put his team up by less than a TD.
The game has changed, there are more points being scored, defenses are at a disadvantage you need to get with the times grand pa.
In 20 years you'll watch these highlights and be like.. look at that idiot score with 1:20 to go to put his team up by less than a TD.
The game has changed, there are more points being scored, defenses are at a disadvantage you need to get with the times grand pa.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 10:32 am to JB Bama
quote:
From a coaching perspective you just tell your guys before they go out there, hey if you break a run and there's over a minute to go, take a knee at the 1. We have the best rushing offense in the country you kneel at the one, we'll put it in and we won't leave them any time to answer.
You could probably tell a player that 50 times before the offense took over and they probably still wouldn't do it with all the adrenaline of a long run and the NC on the line. Also, there were a number of false starts in this game. So you could get a false start after kneeling at the 1 and might not make it in and have to rely on a FG kicker that missed an easy one earlier. You could also fumble, etc. Things could still go wrong.
quote:
Why would you put your trust in a shaky defense instead of an outstanding running game? I guess you like to lose more games than you have to?
A Bama fan telling others how to secure victory at the end of the game... But seriously, there's validity to what you're saying, but I'm just saying it's easier said than done in the environment/situation they were in at the time.
And if you're team can't stop the other team from reaching the end zone with just over a minute left, well then maybe the other team deserves the W.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 10:38 am to Schwaaz
As soon as mason got past the safety, I thought he should kneel this out. I didn't wake up this morning and think it
Posted on 1/7/14 at 10:40 am to BigEdLSU
fwiw id rather my defense face fsu while fsu is down and with a time crunch. FSU would have been under much greater pressure on that last drive than if you stall and are forced into a fg. They get into ot where time is no factor at all.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 10:43 am to heartbreakTiger
But in overtime you get the ball too.
By scoring it was all or nothing.
By kneeling it would have been "all or overtime", with maybe a 2% chance of losing in regulation .
By scoring it was all or nothing.
By kneeling it would have been "all or overtime", with maybe a 2% chance of losing in regulation .
Posted on 1/7/14 at 10:46 am to BigEdLSU
quote:
You don't want to leave them 1:20
Your defense SHOULD be able to stop a team from driving the length of the field and having to score a td to beat you with only 1:20 left on the clock. Not many drives for Td's and starting at the 25 yard line are accomplished in 1:20.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 10:47 am to BigEdLSU
yea but you have a 4 point lead in regulation and you have 80 yards to defend. FSU also had all the momentum because of the come back so its best to score and turn it over to the defense. If there had been a defender closing on him i could see the argument because no need to fight for the touch down but when its open like that you take it and trust the d.
FSU has the momentum if they force a fg, they are under much less pressure in overtime. You also run the risk of having your field goal blocked or a botched snap.
Im all for thinking outside the box and using stats but in that situation you take the points.
FSU has the momentum if they force a fg, they are under much less pressure in overtime. You also run the risk of having your field goal blocked or a botched snap.
Im all for thinking outside the box and using stats but in that situation you take the points.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 10:50 am to heartbreakTiger
I'd love to hear Gus answer this hypothetical himself in a setting where he doesnt feel like he is whining or throwing his rb under the bus.
He is one of the most proactive coaches out there. I'd be willing to bet he would have rather had the ball at the one.
He is one of the most proactive coaches out there. I'd be willing to bet he would have rather had the ball at the one.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 10:55 am to heartbreakTiger
quote:
yea but you have a 4 point lead in regulation and you have 80 yards to defend. FSU also had all the momentum because of the come back so its best to score and turn it over to the defense. If there had been a defender closing on him i could see the argument because no need to fight for the touch down but when its open like that you take it and trust the d.
FSU has the momentum if they force a fg, they are under much less pressure in overtime. You also run the risk of having your field goal blocked or a botched snap.
Im all for thinking outside the box and using stats but in that situation you take the points.
All of this.
Auburn lost the game on special teams and defense.
FSU slowed Auburn just enough in the 2nd half to give themselves a shot.
But Auburn should feel no shame. They gave their all and were heavy underdogs. They proved themselves more than worthy.
The Gus Bus is legit.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 11:00 am to BigEdLSU
So auburn just won a game where a kicker missed a few fg. Auburn kicker missed a chip shot earlier in the game. And y'all want auburn to forgo a 4 pt lead with less than 2 minutes to go for a chance at a game tieing fg AND going against the best kicker in college football in OT? Man just so many things could go wrong by taking knee. There has been enough games played so I'm sure there are stats that at least provide some indication of what the right call might be.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 11:05 am to BigEdLSU
Such a dumb proposition. The TD puts them up 4 and makes FSU have to score a TD to win. You play the odds, and the odds are in your favor FSU doesn't get a TD.
Even without that, you're expecting a RB with the mentality to take the ball to the house every time he touches it to have the presence in that situation to take a knee? Seriously?
Even without that, you're expecting a RB with the mentality to take the ball to the house every time he touches it to have the presence in that situation to take a knee? Seriously?
Posted on 1/7/14 at 11:16 am to Riseupfromtherubble
It may be so incredibly stupid, but auburn so incredibly lost while not doing it.
Would this alternative have guaranteed a loss as well? Who knows
Would this alternative have guaranteed a loss as well? Who knows
Posted on 1/7/14 at 11:26 am to Mizzoufan26
And if the au defense makes a tackle, they likely stop them.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 11:41 am to C
I watched the game, they didn't. The way they played it wasn't working last night, because we saw it play out.
This is discussing an alternative that could have lead to victory, but we will never know
This is discussing an alternative that could have lead to victory, but we will never know
Posted on 1/7/14 at 12:05 pm to BigEdLSU
I still say that Auburn should have tackled the FSU WR in the end zone to prevent the last TD.
It would have been another PI penalty with the ball on the one yard line, but the pressure still would have been all on FSU with only 13 seconds left.
It would have been another PI penalty with the ball on the one yard line, but the pressure still would have been all on FSU with only 13 seconds left.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 12:23 pm to MetryTyger
quote:
It would have been another PI penalty with the ball on the one yard line, but the pressure still would have been all on FSU with only 13 seconds left.
I saw either a Falcons game or maybe it was a Patriots game but whatever it was they put two DBs on the tallest WR and mugged him at the line of scrimmage to get him out of the play. Don't let them try.
Posted on 1/7/14 at 12:29 pm to JB Bama
Excellent point. I started a thread in the score board on this very topic. Everyone said I was stupid, while everyone watch Auburn go down like a $2 whore. Everyone against this train of thought just saw Auburn lose but are too set in their ways to see an alternative.
The bottom line for me is that Auburn hasn't been very good on defense all year long. They couldn't stop FSU in the 4th quarter. FSU was moving the ball at will in the 4th quarter. 1:19 is an eternity in CFB. Do you trust your offense with a first and goal or do you trust your defense with 1:19? The answer was very clear to me watching the game.
As soon as Auburn scored, I said to several people the game was over and FSU was going to win. Coincidentally, everyone of them agreed with me that Auburn left too much time on the clock like dummies. Hell, even Musberger asked if it was too much time left on the clock.
Football has evolved. The 2 yards and a cloud of dust mentality is over. Teams can move the ball in this pass happy, clock stops on every first down, we call PI if you blow on someone, game. It's ludicrous to give your opponent a CHANCE to beat you. You bleed the clock then go beat them.
Anyone trusting Auburn's defense was just foolish. They were what we thought they were. Porous, leaky, and inept. Way to setup Winston for his Heisman moment. Stupid.
The bottom line for me is that Auburn hasn't been very good on defense all year long. They couldn't stop FSU in the 4th quarter. FSU was moving the ball at will in the 4th quarter. 1:19 is an eternity in CFB. Do you trust your offense with a first and goal or do you trust your defense with 1:19? The answer was very clear to me watching the game.
As soon as Auburn scored, I said to several people the game was over and FSU was going to win. Coincidentally, everyone of them agreed with me that Auburn left too much time on the clock like dummies. Hell, even Musberger asked if it was too much time left on the clock.
Football has evolved. The 2 yards and a cloud of dust mentality is over. Teams can move the ball in this pass happy, clock stops on every first down, we call PI if you blow on someone, game. It's ludicrous to give your opponent a CHANCE to beat you. You bleed the clock then go beat them.
Anyone trusting Auburn's defense was just foolish. They were what we thought they were. Porous, leaky, and inept. Way to setup Winston for his Heisman moment. Stupid.
quote:
No what's dumb is the archaic belief that "You always take the points when you are losing".
The game has changed the good coaches adapt (Belichik, Gus, etc.) You should go for it on 4th and less than 5 most of the time. You should call time outs on defense when another team is about to score to preserve enough time for your offense. There are certain times where running the clock is much more important than scoring points.
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