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re: Best Running Back in SEC History?
Posted on 6/1/22 at 5:18 pm to 3down10
Posted on 6/1/22 at 5:18 pm to 3down10
quote:
The fact you think the number of people in the box is more important than how many extra people they have in the box vs the offense is not my fault.
I never said that is more important.
What matters is that They go hand in hand.
A crowd of people on both sides of the ball reduces space to run.
1
Posted on 6/1/22 at 5:40 pm to djsdawg
quote:
I never said that is more important.
What matters is that They go hand in hand.
A crowd of people on both sides of the ball reduces space to run.
Not if your blockers are executing and creating holes.
As I keep saying over and over, it's a numbers game. The offense is choosing to crowd the people up because they feel it gives them the advantage.
This post was edited on 6/1/22 at 5:41 pm
Posted on 6/1/22 at 6:15 pm to 3down10
quote:
Not if your blockers are executing and creating holes.
Holes are smaller with more bodies packed tightly in together. This is simple math.
quote:
The offense is choosing to crowd the people up because they feel it gives them the advantage.
The advantage for what besides short yardage?
Pulpwood summed it up in better in more detail. Read it twice for better understanding/
Posted on 6/1/22 at 6:51 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
FWIW, I went and reread that article. He never said Henry was the best SEC RB of all time.
Don't misunderstand me. Derrick Henry is a great talent. Nobody is saying anything different. (Or they shouldn't)
I am just voicing my opinion that Herschel Walker and Bo Jackson should be considered 1A and 1B and people can choose which they prefer.
This might be a troll thread...but even troll threads can spark interesting conversation. But, this one has pretty much played itself out.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 6:54 pm to 3down10
quote:
You do realize he had Jake Coker as his QB right? The year before that, it was Blake Sims. His Freshman year it was AJ, but he didn't get many carry's.
Their QBs weren't super talented, but those teams had very good skill players and defenses still had to respect the threat of Cooper or Ridley going downfield and OJ Howard going up the seam.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 9:01 pm to VADawg
quote:
Their QBs weren't super talented, but those teams had very good skill players and defenses still had to respect the threat of Cooper or Ridley going downfield and OJ Howard going up the seam.
Cooper was in the NFL. Ardarius Stewart and Richard Mullaney were there.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 9:06 pm to VADawg
quote:
Their QBs weren't super talented, but those teams had very good skill players and defenses still had to respect the threat of Cooper or Ridley going downfield and OJ Howard going up the seam.
So we are back to the only way a RB can qualify as the best is if they play on a team that is solely dedicated to the run/their success.
If a good passing game is such a big deal, why aren't the RBs at the top mostly from pass heavy teams?
You guys are taking something that is a benefit in short amounts of carries and you are applying it to large amounts of carries.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 9:12 pm to djsdawg
quote:
Holes are smaller with more bodies packed tightly in together. This is simple math.
Bad math.
They pack them in tighter so they can create holes easier. Double teams, pulls, etc. Because again...it's all a numbers game.
quote:
The advantage for what besides short yardage?
Pulpwood summed it up in better in more detail. Read it twice for better understanding/
That short yardage is good yardage.
Every team will have this goal as a priority on offense: Establish the run.
Every team will have this goal as a priority on defense: Stop the run.
Every carry a back gets isn't going for 6-7 yards. Most of them are short yard carries, and then they get a carry here and there where they are able to break away.
You do realize that being an Alabama fan, I'm extremely familiar with this style of offense right? I mean it's the style of offense I've basically watched Alabama play my entire life until recently.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 9:22 pm to 3down10
quote:
So we are back to the only way a RB can qualify as the best is if they play on a team that is solely dedicated to the run/their success.
Derrick Henry was an absolute monster. The difference is that with Herschel, everyone knew what was coming and no one could stop it. Georgia averaged 132 passing yards per game in 1980. Herschel was damn near the entire offense.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 9:30 pm to VADawg
quote:
Herschel was damn near the entire offense.
Or a shade under 40%.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 9:42 pm to 3down10
quote:
You do realize that being an Alabama fan, I'm extremely familiar with this style of offense right? I mean it's the style of offense I've basically watched Alabama play my entire life until recently.
Sure, but answer this:
Why do rbs gain less yards when the D loads the box to stop the run in short yardage?
Posted on 6/1/22 at 10:00 pm to djsdawg
quote:
Sure, but answer this:
Why do rbs gain less yards when the D loads the box to stop the run in short yardage?
As I've been saying, it's all about the numbers. If they bring extra defenders into the box, they will gain a numbers advantage.
The offense is by default always down 1 because of the QB. There are exceptions obviously, option QB, duel threat QB, etc. But for the most part, the QB is kind of dead weight on a run play after the snap.
But as I pointed out earlier, a stacked box isn't really just always "8". That's just against the most common formations.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 10:12 pm to 3down10
quote:
As I've been saying, it's all about the numbers. If they bring extra defenders into the box, they will gain a numbers advantage.
This is not really an answer to the question .
Posted on 6/2/22 at 12:51 pm to 3down10
quote:
The offense is by default always down 1 because of the QB. There are exceptions obviously, option QB, duel threat QB, etc. But for the most part, the QB is kind of dead weight on a run play after the snap.
No shite. Totally irrelevant to the point.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 1:57 pm to MoarKilometers
quote:
Or a shade under 40%.
Well, let's see. Buck Belue threw 11 TD passes and Herschel scored 15 TDs on the ground.
Belue passed for 1.314 yards and Herschel ran for 1616 yards in 1980.
When is the last time you saw a RB out gain the number of passing yards a team has?
Did Derrick Henry do that?
Posted on 6/2/22 at 2:00 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
Well, let's see. Buck Belue threw 11 TD passes and Herschel scored 15 TDs on the ground. Belue passed for 1.314 yards and Herschel ran for 1616 yards in 1980. When is the last time you saw a RB out gain the number of passing yards a team has? Did Derrick Henry do that?
Game, set, match.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 2:58 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
When is the last time you saw a RB out gain the number of passing yards a team has?
Since it is pretty much every wishbone team it would be last year.
The SEC in 1980 wasn't that good of a conference, not what it is today. Of your first 6 games only 1 team had a winning record and that 1 was a 6 win team.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 3:13 pm to mbogo
quote:
Since it is pretty much every wishbone team it would be last year.
Okay. Which one? And did Henry ever do it?
quote:
The SEC in 1980 wasn't that good of a conference, not what it is today. Of your first 6 games only 1 team had a winning record and that 1 was a 6 win team.
Alabama fans odd obsession with how good teams were always catches me off gaurd. It's not hwo good the team was so much as how good the run defenses were. And in that era defenses around the country were built to stop the run. Yhey still were to a lesser degree in 2015, but it was a much lesser degree. Teams had already transitioned to more wide open offenses in 2015 while in 1980 it was largely a run first environment.
Example?
John Fourcette of Ole Miss led the conference in passing with
1,897 yards.
In 2015, Chad Kelly led the conference with 4,042 yards.
So, you tell me. Do you think defenses were set up to stop the run or pass in 1980? How about 2015?
Posted on 6/2/22 at 3:19 pm to DawgsLife
I imagine any of the service academies.
Henry didn't do it. He rushed for 28 TDs. Did Herschel do it?
If the defenses were good why did the teams have such bad records?
Henry didn't do it. He rushed for 28 TDs. Did Herschel do it?
If the defenses were good why did the teams have such bad records?
Posted on 6/2/22 at 3:35 pm to mbogo
quote:
The SEC in 1980 wasn't that good of a conference, not what it is today. Of your first 6 games only 1 team had a winning record and that 1 was a 6 win team.
Over his entire 3 year career, Walker only faced an AP final ranked SEC team once, and that was in 1982 vs #14 Auburn.
I'm not sure about coaches total, I know in 1980 Florida finished #19 in the coaches, but unranked in the AP. Looking up final AP rankings is enough of a chore for me, Georgia fans can do the coaches poll if they think it makes a big difference.
Counting OOC games, Walker played a total of 6 ranked teams over his entire career.
1980:
#9 Notre Dame - W
1981:
#1 Clemson - L
#10 Pitt - L
1982:
#8 Clemson - W
#14 Auburn - W
#1 Penn St - L
A career .500 record against ranked teams.
Henry played 4 AP top20 teams in 2015 alone, 7 in the top25.
This post was edited on 6/2/22 at 3:39 pm
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